tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post6107791948480170171..comments2023-12-25T22:23:48.273-06:00Comments on CVSTOS FIDEI: Two America'sTito Edwardshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12218771096085701665noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-45709066659231615752007-03-08T13:18:00.000-06:002007-03-08T13:18:00.000-06:00Chris,I'm not sure how you read into my postings t...Chris,<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how you read into my postings that DD didn't speak out against abortion. I'm sure she did, I'll take your word for it.<BR/><BR/>TitoTitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08168006924428661440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-59650208208609381682007-03-08T00:40:00.000-06:002007-03-08T00:40:00.000-06:00what I'm saying is that groups like CW (and Cathol...<I>what I'm saying is that groups like CW (and Catholic Charities for that matter) are notoriously silent about the evil of abortion</I><BR/><BR/>Absolutely unfounded statement. Do you even read the Catholic Worker newspaper? They denounce abortion consistently.miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-86652361556864847182007-03-07T23:15:00.000-06:002007-03-07T23:15:00.000-06:00Anna, have helped pregnant women in the Gabrial Pr...Anna,<BR/><BR/><I> have helped pregnant women in the Gabrial Project. So, by your logic, I am passively opposing abortion because I am NOT praying at an abortion mill. I have actually taken in pregnant women. The CW does what is does and part of the Body of Christ. Each are called to do his part.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>Please don't make this personal, I am not saying you don't do your part, what I'm saying is that groups like CW (and Catholic Charities for that matter) are notoriously silent about the evil of abortion. It is not sufficient to say that they are called to other areas of ministry, that's like trying to pull a sliver out of the finger of someone who is bleeding to death. Worldwide abortion kills 125,000 babies per day, that's many times the number that die from every other cause combined, and what's worse, it is not out of neglect, but of an act of will.<BR/><BR/>http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031995_evangelium-vitae_en.html see number 58.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/><BR/>MattMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02748093918886373656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-29396573979635887372007-03-07T12:51:00.000-06:002007-03-07T12:51:00.000-06:00You're a riot. I think you should have a look at t...<I>You're a riot. I think you should have a look at the various materials put out their by CW, and a look at their "associates" before making such an amusing statement.</I><BR/><BR/>Matt - <BR/><BR/>Sorry you found that statement "amusing," but it is the truth. <BR/><BR/>I have been a subscriber of the Catholic Worker paper for years and read every issue. I have read Dorothy Day's autobiography twice and countless other works on her and the Catholic Worker movement. I have connections with various members of the Catholic Worker tradition. There is a CLEAR difference between their spirituality and methods than what you are characterizing as "liberalism." <BR/><BR/>Dorothy Day was a doctrinal conservative. Her loyalty was to Christ and to the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church. Her loyalty to the Church is seen in her repeated pleas for Catholics to trust the Church's teaching. She was staunchly opposed to "liberal" ideas about sexuality, birth control, etc. The ONLY sense in which she could be described as "liberal" is in her anti-war stance, which is the stance of the early Christians (in this sense, pacifism is itself "conservative" when you think about it, and just war teaching is "liberal"), as well as a stance toward war that is upheld as consistent with Catholic teaching. <BR/><BR/>I suggest YOU read up on Dorothy Day and what she believed before you make assumptions. You do not know what you are talking about.miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-70648403748359330622007-03-07T10:50:00.000-06:002007-03-07T10:50:00.000-06:00Matt,In emphasizing that abortion is a moral evil ...Matt,<BR/><BR/>In emphasizing that abortion is a moral evil (which is certainly true), you seem to neglect that the underlying reality that abortion makes an object out of a human person. You abstract abortion from the persons involved, which, in fact, is exactly what the abortionist do. The Church bases its approach to abortion (and other moral evils) from a personalist perspective, which was shared by John Paul II and Dorothy Day. This can be seen in the opening of section of <I>The Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church</I>: "Discovering that they are loved by God, people come to understand their own transcendent dignity, they learn not to be satisfied with only themselves but to encounter their neighbour in a network of relationships that are ever more authentically human. Men and women who are made “new” by the love of God are able to change the rules and the quality of relationships, transforming even social structures. They are people capable of bringing peace where there is conflict, of building and nurturing fraternal relationships where there is hatred, of seeking justice where there prevails the exploitation of man by man. Only love is capable of radically transforming the relationships that men maintain among themselves. This is the perspective that allows every person of good will to perceive the broad horizons of justice and human development in truth and goodness" (5). <BR/>From this ground, the Church explicates its approach to the evils of the world, rooting its teaching in the concept that we, as creatures, are created in the image and likeness of God. This teaching is further explicated in the papal encyclicals dealing with human life.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/>ChrisChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02255210563319188665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-54128500244680401562007-03-07T09:37:00.000-06:002007-03-07T09:37:00.000-06:00Matt"I'm afraid that this doesn't quite match what...Matt<BR/><BR/>"I'm afraid that this doesn't quite match what the Church actually teaches about the hierarchy of social issues. Abortion is not just another issue, it is the supreme act of evil, the deliberate killing of an innocent human life... it must be ACTIVELY OPPOSED, passive objection does not fulfil one's obligation to defend the defenseless."<BR/><BR/>Show me the document because I think educating people on the evil of abortion is actively opposing abortion. BTW, I know abortion is the most important issue. I have helped pregnant women in the Gabrial Project. So, by your logic, I am passively opposing abortion because I am NOT praying at an abortion mill. I have actually taken in pregnant women. The CW does what is does and part of the Body of Christ. Each are called to do his part.<BR/><BR/>Anna B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-84478676085187665552007-03-07T07:20:00.000-06:002007-03-07T07:20:00.000-06:00"Day opposed abortion because it was an attack on ..."Day opposed abortion because it was an attack on the poor, that is not the right reason"<BR/><BR/>So it's not right to oppose something because it attacks the poor?<BR/><BR/>Abortion - Immoral and Evil<BR/>Poverty - Moral and Good<BR/><BR/>OK...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-50561401990763545332007-03-07T00:08:00.000-06:002007-03-07T00:08:00.000-06:00Anna,It's is everyone's responsibility to not vote...Anna,<BR/><BR/><I>It's is everyone's responsibility to not vote for those who are proabortion and to tell the truth about abortion and the church's teaching on it.<BR/></I><BR/><BR/>I'm afraid that this doesn't quite match what the Church actually teaches about the hierarchy of social issues. Abortion is not just another issue, it is the supreme act of evil, the deliberate killing of an innocent human life... it must be ACTIVELY OPPOSED, passive objection does not fulfil one's obligation to defend the defenseless.<BR/><BR/><I>Just because someone from CW is not there does not mean that they are proabortion.</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure you read my post correctly, I did not suggest that CW's are proabortion. I suggest that they have other "more important" social issues in their priority list, and perhaps they are afraid to alienate their allies if they are too vocal about this abomination.<BR/><BR/>Bing,<BR/><BR/><I>NOTHING "liberal" about Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement</I><BR/><BR/>You're a riot. I think you should have a look at the various materials put out their by CW, and a look at their "associates" before making such an amusing statement.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/><BR/>MattMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02748093918886373656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-50951576216641330352007-03-06T19:22:00.000-06:002007-03-06T19:22:00.000-06:00There is absolutely NOTHING "liberal" about Doroth...There is absolutely NOTHING "liberal" about Dorothy Day and the Catholic Worker Movement. This is simply another case of a politically conservative blogger lumping people together as "liberals" when he knows absolutely nothing about her life, other than that she was a pacifist. Dorothy Day has inspired both liberal and conservative Catholics, but she is best described as a "radical." She transcended the liberal/conservative dichotomy that has been handed to us by secular politics, not by the Church. In the future, I hope this blogger gains a more nuanced view of the reality of things and stops letting secularism define who we are as Catholics. That's what you do when you categorize people as "liberals." It's ridiculous.miafratehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05095886227017413491noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-38034631865572714362007-03-06T10:43:00.000-06:002007-03-06T10:43:00.000-06:00Matt and Anna B.,I couldn't agree more on the fact...Matt and Anna B.,<BR/><BR/>I couldn't agree more on the fact that we should confront abortion on what it is, a objective moral evil. <BR/><BR/>This being said, in my own experience with the victims of abortion, they often fail to respond to arguments affirming that abortion is a moral evil. The better strategy is to remind them of a few simple facts, that there unborn child is a person and that they (the parents or the single women) should not fear the demands that a child places upon them, especially time and money, which are so emphasized in our world.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/>ChrisChrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02255210563319188665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-66959681685350045852007-03-06T10:01:00.000-06:002007-03-06T10:01:00.000-06:00Matt,"Ps. I don't remember seeing too many CW Cath...Matt,<BR/><BR/>"Ps. I don't remember seeing too many CW Catholics holding vigil at the execution of dozens of babies every day, they are more interested in other "social" causes... perhaps it's because they're all American citizens and not immigrants that CW doesn't show much interest"<BR/><BR/>Abortion is everyone's responsibility, I agree with you on that. But, not everyone is called to stand in front of abortion clinics.<BR/><BR/>It's is everyone's responsibility to not vote for those who are proabortion and to tell the truth about abortion and the church's teaching on it.<BR/><BR/>Just because someone from CW is not there does not mean that they are proabortion.<BR/><BR/>We each have our purpose here. I am happy that you have answered yours every Satuday morning.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/><BR/>Anna B.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-21065823048823323682007-03-05T21:30:00.000-06:002007-03-05T21:30:00.000-06:00Chris,For Day, abortion and contraception were use...Chris,<BR/><BR/><I>For Day, abortion and contraception were used by the social elites as a way of eliminating minority groups, the disabled, and the poor</I><BR/><BR/>There's the rub, if, as you say, Day opposed abortion because it was an attack on the poor, that is not the right reason, because it's a moral evil, and the destruction of innocent human life (regardless of their social status).<BR/><BR/>Ps. I don't remember seeing too many CW Catholics holding vigil at the execution of dozens of babies every day, they are more interested in other "social" causes... perhaps it's because they're all American citizens and not immigrants that CW doesn't show much interest.<BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/><BR/>MattMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02748093918886373656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-90596112981104750972007-03-05T11:15:00.000-06:002007-03-05T11:15:00.000-06:00Tito,Your continuing pronouncements against "Dorot...Tito,<BR/>Your continuing pronouncements against "Dorothy Day Catholics" lack a rational approach, which you seem to desire. <BR/>Have you, in your research (or lack there of), found any instance where Dorothy Day actually supported abortion and the contraceptive mentality? If you have, I would be surprised, given the fact that she repeatedly condemned these evils (on numerous occasions in the New York Catholic Worker paper). For Day, abortion and contraception were used by the social elites as a way of eliminating minority groups, the disabled, and the poor. Dorothy Day simply stated the truth, against the pronouncements of Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. <BR/>The real difficulty that I see in your arguments is that you have fallaciously equated discussion of poverty and pacifism with a permissive attitude to abortion. If this were in fact the case, why is it that the "conservative" establishment, especially represented by notable Republicans like Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, were instrumental in establishing abortion in this country (see the excellent article "Criss-Cross: Democrats, Republicans, and Abortion" in Human Life Review)?Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02255210563319188665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-32559316670983440882007-03-05T10:24:00.000-06:002007-03-05T10:24:00.000-06:00MJ,Here's your 'reinforcement': http://www.evangel...MJ,<BR/><BR/>Here's your 'reinforcement': http://www.evangelical-catholicism.com/Titohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08168006924428661440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16020407.post-30888611449631363912007-03-04T21:30:00.000-06:002007-03-04T21:30:00.000-06:00Interesting crusade you have going against Dorothy...Interesting crusade you have going against Dorothy Day, and yet so little knowledge or understanding for reinforcement.MAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04263535685537314054noreply@blogger.com